what is a good amp to use with a7s w 416z and 902 or 806 8as

**bowtie427ss** · March 21st, 2013, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by alancohen

Let me guess: because someone said so one day, put it in writing and it became gospel.

LOL More often than not that seems the case in the audio world.

But, in this case i'm pretty sure we have it on good authority from prior Altec employees. I don't recall the specifics well enough to parrot them. If memory serves the basic topology is the same as, and may have been licensed from QSC.

................ and really the one you want is the "S/A" version with the precision stepped attenuators.

**juniper** · March 21st, 2013, 09:23 AM

I have tried about 15 combinations of amps pre amps over the last 3 years mostly 70' through 90's classics, all with big followings. I have found Altecs are the most difficult speakers I have had to match amps with. My favorite is a pilot tube amp... number 2 is a toss up, and costs around 200 but doesnt have a phono stage. it is a panasonic sa-xr 55 chip amp, dual mono 100 watts per channel.. These amps have about the biggest following I think I have ran across on the net. If you do a little research I think you will be suprised.I read somewhere that it uses the same chips as a 10,000 bell canto unit. Good luck with your search!

**alancohen** · March 21st, 2013, 11:31 AM

I have not had a lot of personal experience with audio electronics. I went from a Kenwood receiver in 1978 to an Onkyo surround sound receiver in 2000 to some pretty sweet DIY tube stuff now, with nothing in between. This Altec thing has opened my eyes and ears to what is possible in audio without spending tens of thousands of dollars.

I will tell you that both my 802-8Gs and 288-8Ls will test the best of amp designers and bring them to tears. At 115dB sensitivity for the 288s you will here everything that amp is doing at any volume. It takes a really good electronics chain to be quiet with these drivers. My Heathkits sounded "OK" with the Onkyo, but that wasn't until I built and installed the tube preamp/amp I have now. The sound is positively liquid and dead, I mean dead silent.

My recommendation for the long term plan is a Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid preamp Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid Preamp. At $499 for the easily assembled kit, it's a no-brainer, and as it's been stated already, a good preamp is the basis for any good system. If the preamp is noisy, slow or lacks detail, the amp will only enhance it's flaws.

Check the Audiogon site for tube preamps: Search New Today | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community Click preamps on the left, then Tube, then sort by price. You will see that prices very quickly jump to $1000 for a quality preamp. The GG doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, and it's looks are not going to make the centerfold of Audio Times Magazine, but for sound quality, I'd put it up against anything on the first 2 pages up to and over $2K.

**bowtie427ss** · March 21st, 2013, 12:05 PM

My recommendation for the long term plan is a Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid preamp Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid Preamp. At $499 for the easily assembled kit, it's a no-brainer, and as it's been stated already, a good preamp is the basis for any good system. If the preamp is noisy, slow or lacks detail, the amp will only enhance it's flaws.

Fully agree with the positive attributes of a good tube preamp. I was deeply endeared to the sound of my Conrad Johnson PV-5 rebuilt and modded by George Melnyk at Audio Classics. For serious listening sessions it was 99%+ of the best i've heard.

However, no tone controls, and no loudness contour eventually left a good bit to be desired for low level/late night listening.

Ultimately, i opted for a new 2009 production McIntosh C-41(Favored dealers can sometimes get limited new production runs of discontinued models), it's really not much behind the CJ in overall sonics and features like tone controls, loudness contour, a balanced line/CD input and balanced output plus 2 switchable single ended outputs give it a huge trump card in versatility, and as a bonus it's got wireless remote control. Cost aside, i have yet to hear anything that's "better enough" to make me compromise those features that i can't seem to live without.

**alancohen** · March 21st, 2013, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by bowtie427ss

However, no tone controls, and no loudness contour eventually left a good bit to be desired for low level/late night listening.

I would have thought the same thing. But I find I don't miss tone controls or a loudness contour in the least. A remote controlled stepped attenuator would be nice, and I could add one for under $100, but I haven't felt compelled enough yet. I just set it to where I remember it sounded good the last time I was in the same mood and sit. If it's a little loud or a little soft I usually don't bother changing it. I figure at a live performance I don't get a remote, why do I need one now?

As far as the low volume loudness contour, I really don't need it. That was the first thing that really surprised me with this amp/preamp combo and my Heathkits. Even at very low volumes, all the lows and highs are there...just softer. I had not experienced that before with any sound system I owned or played with. Usually when the power goes down, the bass drops out first. This does not happen with my current equipment. Any changes I could make to the tone would probably make it worse, not better. I think it has something to do with the very low output impedence of the amp. To quote the designer: The output impedance is very low at 0.4 ohm giving clean, accurate bass transients. High current pulses are available to drive the woofer. The bottom end is down 1 dB at 30 Hz and 3 dB down at 20 Hz. Conventional single-ended amplifiers have little bass drive below 100 Hz.

After I get the room set up with all appropriate sound panels and bass traps, I might get an EQ to help match the room acoustics. But I fear that once I have it I will start playing with the sound, and that's a slippery slope for me. I'm really enjoying this "what you hear is what you get" thing I have going on now.

**bowtie427ss** · March 21st, 2013, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by alancohen

I would have thought the same thing. But I find I don't miss tone controls or a loudness contour in the least. A remote controlled stepped attenuator would be nice, and I could add one for under $100, but I haven't felt compelled enough yet. I just set it to where I remember it sounded good the last time I was in the same mood and sit. If it's a little loud or a little soft I usually don't bother changing it. I figure at a live performance I don't get a remote, why do I need one now?

As far as the low volume loudness contour, I really don't need it. That was the first thing that really surprised me with this amp/preamp combo and my Heathkits. Even at very low volumes, all the lows and highs are there...just softer. I had not experienced that before with any sound system I owned or played with. Usually when the power goes down, the bass drops out first. This does not happen with my current equipment. Any changes I could make to the tone would probably make it worse, not better. I think it has something to do with the very low output impedence of the amp. To quote the designer: The output impedance is very low at 0.4 ohm giving clean, accurate bass transients. High current pulses are available to drive the woofer. The bottom end is down 1 dB at 30 Hz and 3 dB down at 20 Hz. Conventional single-ended amplifiers have little bass drive below 100 Hz.

After I get the room set up with all appropriate sound panels and bass traps, I might get an EQ to help match the room acoustics. But I fear that once I have it I will start playing with the sound, and that's a slippery slope for me. I'm really enjoying this "what you hear is what you get" thing I have going on now.

I don't think the word "hobby" is really encompassing enough. But, isn't this just about the greatest hobby on the planet?

I think when it comes right down to it there are almost as many ways to approach the home audio experience as there are enthusiasts. So much good gear, so many possible great combinations, only two ears, and not nearly enough time or money.

Even at very low volumes, all the lows and highs are there...just softer. I had not experienced that before with any sound system I owned or played with.

This has been an initial "Altec experience" for many people.

My "Fletcher/Munson" yearns for a tad more.

**Audio_by_Goodwill** · March 21st, 2013, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by bowtie427ss

I was simply trying to keep within his budget at a power level similar to the AU-717.

I know nothing of that unit. I just figured the 9444A is a good amp, and usually not too awful expensive if a person is patient.

IMO&E, the preamp will be the component that's hardest to get right in terms of sound quality. Choose a crappy preamp, and you get crappy sound no matter what you use for an amplifier.

I'm not using s pre-amp at all. I'm just using the gain controls on the back. I admit, it's not the most convenient. I would likely use a pre-amp if I had something that suited me.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by bowtie427ss

LOL More often than not that seems the case in the audio world.

But, in this case i'm pretty sure we have it on good authority from prior Altec employees. I don't recall the specifics well enough to parrot them. If memory serves the basic topology is the same as, and may have been licensed from QSC.

I don't recall specifics either, However, I was thinking the B was more like the QSC and the A was quite different.

................ and really the one you want is the "S/A" version with the precision stepped attenuators.

Is that different that "anniversary series"? That's what both my user and my "pile of parts" amp say.

**hemicuda** · March 21st, 2013, 10:41 PM

If I'm not mistaken, the B version has smaller filter capacitors and doesn't have as good of bass reproduction as the A version. Other than that, I'm not sure without seeing schematics...